Game on........

[geordieggg]

http://www.datsun.co.nz/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3698

That's me and one of the local boys who's got a C110 Skyline that he thinks will beat my Zed.

Between now and then, Iplan on dropping the flat-top pistons into the car. What other items would you guys suggest for the time beig to get just a little more out of the old girl?

It's a stock standard L28E, N42 head, stock cam, injectors etc. I thought I'd put the flat-tops in, up the compresson a little, and make sure it's had a really good tune. Don't have the time or the money for head work or a new cam or anything, so any suggestions would be good.

Also, how hard is it to change the pistons while the block is still in the car? I don't want to remove the crank unless it can't be avoided, I know it's sort of the hard way of doing it but don't have anywhere I can pull the motor out.

Or is this the time that it gets out of hand and I throw the LD28 crank in it (less the L24 rods and decent head gasket etc - do it on the cheap and nasty!!)?

[240znz]

Bloody hell man, get a grip!

You'll kill "Popeye" in that thing without any mods. He has a standard cam and 240z carbs, that's all, oh forgot to add that he has the aerodynamic drag coefficient similar to a flying brick!

Cheap and nasty builds go bang! Always have, always will. Save yourself money, time and marriage. Don't piss about, do it properly or not at all.

If I were you, run that existing motor without any more mods. Why waste your time and money. Buy another block and fit all the go fast bits to it. Then swap them out. Done!

Sorry I wasn't much help.

[geordieggg]

Bloody hell man, get a grip!

You'll kill "Popeye" in that thing without any mods. He has a standard cam and 240z carbs, that's all, oh forgot to add that he has the aerodynamic drag coefficient similar to a flying brick!

Cheap and nasty builds go bang! Always have, always will. Save yourself money, time and marriage. Don't piss about, do it properly or not at all.

If I were you, run that existing motor without any more mods. Why waste your time and money. Buy another block and fit all the go fast bits to it. Then swap them out. Done!

Hahaha yeah I know his set-up is pretty boring, so's mine. But I want to do it with ease and in style, and still have enough left over to show some of these local ricers what a real car car do.......

I know what you're saying about the cheap and nasties, that's why I was thinking of just going with the flat tops, seeing as how the head gasket needs changing anyway, change the pistons in while I'm at it. I agree wtih doing it properly the first time, I guess I'm getting impatient to get the real motor in a car.

I'll stick to the pistons and the tuning then, and go from there. If she doesn't go as well as I wanted, I guess the stroker will be built sooner than I think!

P.S. I'm not worried about the marriage, it's cost me too much already and there ain't no way I'm getting that sort of money (and compensation) back off her!! hahaha

[nzeder]

So you will be running the Fairlady Z GS31 with the L28e? Is this the one that took at that time to sort out? If so do you really want to pull it to bits after all that time/effort before?

I am with James build the beast up and swap them over later. If Michael's car still has the stock 240K GT engine but with 240z SU you will have more HP (assuming both stock, not aircon, power steering yada yada and the big one still with the factory power output ie not less due to age etc)

Anybody know how they will stack up with regards to power to weight? A Bus (ie 2+2 Zed sorry guys it is just what we used to call the two brown 260z 2+2 racecars that were run by Dave Long and Paul Clemmans years ago - so much so that they had windows stickers that said the "Brown Bus Company" a piss take on the Auckland Yellow Bus Company) now back to the statement...A Bus vs a Brick

[geordieggg]

So you will be running the Fairlady Z GS31 with the L28e? Is this the one that took at that time to sort out? If so do you really want to pull it to bits after all that time/effort before?

I am with James build the beast up and swap them over later. If Michael's car still has the stock 240K GT engine but with 240z SU you will have more HP (assuming both stock, not aircon, power steering yada yada and the big one still with the factory power output ie not less due to age etc)

Yep, tis the very same, but now I know exactly what causes what problems with it, and I'm not playing with the electrics this time. It needs the head gasket done anyway, so I was thinking do the pistons at the same time, drop the sump and fix the leaks around that as well.

I am with James and you now, I won't spend too much time and effort (and money) doing a half-assed job of a stroker or anything like that, it's more that there's stuff that needs to be done eventually, I may as well do as much as I was going to do now and save any future problems, and try tolimit the chance of blowing it up on the track.

AFAIK yes it's still the same, original stock motor in Michael's 240, and mine is a stock L28E with pretty good compression, I've A/C but no P/S (unsure about the 240K). I think it'll be interesting, cause at the moment, with the way mine's tuned, it won't rev over about 5k, pulls nicely to that point and then stops. Hopefully a good tune will fix that.

[240znz]

I think it'll be interesting, cause at the moment, with the way mine's tuned, it won't rev over about 5k, pulls nicely to that point and then stops. Hopefully a good tune will fix that.

What's the fuel pressure like?

[geordieggg]

Seems alright (guessing of course), haven't looked too hard at anything, but will start with the basic timing/spark side of things and then if no improvement, start looking elsewhere. I think I'll find it's a timing issue, as the PO had no idea - handed it and some cash over and got the body done and that was all, didn't even get it tuned.

[nzeder]

Well the limiting factor for the revs is that stock intake plenium I think whatever you do it won't pull much past 5500rpm maybe 6000 if you are lucky. Drop the aircon belt off to save the HP drain - you want need that for the track day In the future go triples or triple throttle bodies = get the great induction sound to boot or if you want to say with EFI then a custom plenium will help with the higher revs as the stock ones are build for mass production not top end performance . If you want to run a stock type EFI setup then pickup on of the later NAPS intake manifolds as these have a larger plenium and will help a bit (I heard worth maybe an extra 10-15HP over the non NAPS type) + look at upgrading the stock 50mm throttle body for a 60mm at the least on a EFI stroker. A better option is 64/65mm for a stroker in NA form with a stock type plenium. Figures below are the results of using the Throttle Bodies Calcuation from http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/minj.htm#throttle

50mm TB = 144HP = not good enough the stock engine let alone a stroker
60mm TB = 207HP = better
64mm TB = 236HP = getting there however you can go much bigger on the stock plenium. The NAPS has 2 TBs a 36mm and 42mm = 180ish HP better then the stock 50mm setup but not as good a 60mm TB

Hope this helps for the future project

Another thing is when looking for the higher revs to get the most of that nice Cam you will install you will want to look at using a different dizzy ie the 12-80 version and lock the vaccume advance out and also there is a mod you can do to the mounting plate - I think hybridz.org as lots of info on this. This will help when going for the higher revs as the stock dizzy start to move about too much above 6000-6500rpm

[M4vr1k]

Just an aside re: the local ricers
My Bus (2+2) with just the 240z carbs a 2.5 inch exhaust, L28 head and a really tall cam blows away Vtec hondas (not type R ones though) and wasnt dropping away from a 13b RX7 too quickly either.

[geordieggg]

Drop the aircon belt off to save the HP drain - you want need that for the track day

A/C has been disconnected for a while, I don't use it at all.

In the future go triples or triple throttle bodies = get the great induction sound to boot

With the new motor it'll most likely be triple webers, possibly ITB's but not likely.

If you want to run a stock type EFI setup then pickup on of the later NAPS intake manifolds as these have a larger plenium and will help a bit (I heard worth maybe an extra 10-15HP over the non NAPS type)

How can you tell the difference between a NAPS and a non NAPS style?

Another thing is when looking for the higher revs to get the most of that nice Cam you will install you will want to look at using a different dizzy ie the 12-80 version and lock the vaccume advance out and also there is a mod you can do to the mounting plate - I think hybridz.org as lots of info on this. This will help when going for the higher revs as the stock dizzy start to move about too much above 6000-6500rpm

When I go the whole hog, it'll probably be a new distributor set up anyway, but will need to check options closer to the time.

[nzeder]

If you want to run a stock type EFI setup then pickup on of the later NAPS intake manifolds as these have a larger plenium and will help a bit (I heard worth maybe an extra 10-15HP over the non NAPS type)

How can you tell the difference between a NAPS and a non NAPS style?

Yep it has NAPS in big letters on the top and the openning where the TB goes is much bigger due to the deeper plenium - here is some links to pics of my old NAPS manifold (sold/swapped for some other parts with a guy in Sydney)
http://album.hybridz.org/data/500/11...old-loaded.jpg
http://album.hybridz.org/data/500/11...d-stripped.jpg
http://album.hybridz.org/data/500/11...ssurements.jpg
http://album.hybridz.org/data/500/11...ssurements.jpg

And here is a thread on the NAPS manifold I started a few years back on Hybridz.org http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.ph ... light=naps

Cheers
Mike

[geordieggg]

If you want to run a stock type EFI setup then pickup on of the later NAPS intake manifolds as these have a larger plenium and will help a bit (I heard worth maybe an extra 10-15HP over the non NAPS type)

How can you tell the difference between a NAPS and a non NAPS style?

Yep it has NAPS in big letters on the top

Looking at the pics, it's a bit hard to miss, isn't it??

Ok, so mine's definitely not a NAPS manifold, so what is it then? Take a look:



Note that there's no webbing between the runners, and it has one large TB in place (unsure of size but will measure it tonight if I remember). I've gto a couple of others there that have the webbing, and there's a few minor differences between them all. Even the wiring loom is different to the std 280zx version (compared it to two that Michael had).

[nzeder]

That looks like the stock L20a intake manifold to me - not sure of the code but this is very sim to the N42 units (which came in two forms those with the EGR on the back like this one and those that don't, I have one but it is sold already - going to WA in Australia). If you look at the pics of the NAPS manifold you will see the larger plenium I would be guessing but it might have close to 1l more volume just by the extra depth in the design.

If you also do a search on hybridz.org for P65 intake you will also see another very interesting Nissan EFI manifold. I have seen one here in NZ. Anyway here is a pic of the p65 intake next to another L28 EFI manifold - again one with the larger plenium but not maked as a NAPS - it gets very very confusing with all the different intake designs that were used by Nissan on all many of L6 powered cars


And a pic of the throttle bodies showing the difference

[geordieggg]

That looks like the stock L20a intake manifold to me - not sure of the code but this is very sim to the N42 units (which came in two forms those with the EGR on the back like this one and those that don't, I have one but it is sold already - going to WA in Australia).

I was thinking it might be the original L20 one, considering the car still has the L20 ECU etc it makes sense.

Is there much difference in the size of the L20 and the L28 ones, apart from the TB? Is it worth me swapping it over to one of the other ones I have? Or is it a case of measure, measure and more measure and then make a decision? I know there's little differences between the ones I have, things like a different shaped fuel pressure regulator etc, but at the end of the day, will these make all that much difference to the top end? Now would be the time to do it, I guess, if I wantto go that way.......

[nzeder]

Do you know what head is on the block - I hope a L28 head casting number ie N42 or P90 not one of the L20a one

If I recall correctly the L28 runners are something like 34-35mm in diameter not sure about the L20a might be less so like you said measure measure and then because you can measure if it is a L20a unit and they have much smaller runners might pay to put a L28 one on if you have one.