Red Zed Build Thread
Red Zed Build Thread
Firstly, I would recommend against anyone doing what I've done. In short, I've ended out with a VLSD in my 240z for $923. Had I known it would cost this much I would've put a _real_ LSD in.
Tony(?) from Steelie Gears told me as much when I'd phoned him for help, but I'd already bought the diff and it was too late to turn back.
My main goal was to get my car back on the road after the spider gears in my open diff gave up. Then I saw a longnose r180 VLSD on TradeMe for $350 so figured I'd grab it as an upgrade. It should be stronger than my original 2-spider open r180, and it's LSD-ish.
Anyhow, I pulled the input flange of my old diff and bolted it up to the new diff with no worries. The major hurdle was converting the output flanges to uni-joint ones. Basically I got the VLSD shafts cut off their CV cups, and welded them to the uni-flanges from my old diff.
First I took them to Taylor Automotive in Newmarket who totally wasted my time. They cut the shafts off and then gave up without calling me.
So in the end I got Colin at Gillespie Engineering in Penrose to do the machine work. He's was a good dude and happy to help. They did an excellent job, see pics. It only took around 3 days but it cost me way more than I'd hoped; $573. But looking at their work I can see why it cost that much.
Tony(?) from Steelie Gears told me as much when I'd phoned him for help, but I'd already bought the diff and it was too late to turn back.
My main goal was to get my car back on the road after the spider gears in my open diff gave up. Then I saw a longnose r180 VLSD on TradeMe for $350 so figured I'd grab it as an upgrade. It should be stronger than my original 2-spider open r180, and it's LSD-ish.
Anyhow, I pulled the input flange of my old diff and bolted it up to the new diff with no worries. The major hurdle was converting the output flanges to uni-joint ones. Basically I got the VLSD shafts cut off their CV cups, and welded them to the uni-flanges from my old diff.
First I took them to Taylor Automotive in Newmarket who totally wasted my time. They cut the shafts off and then gave up without calling me.
So in the end I got Colin at Gillespie Engineering in Penrose to do the machine work. He's was a good dude and happy to help. They did an excellent job, see pics. It only took around 3 days but it cost me way more than I'd hoped; $573. But looking at their work I can see why it cost that much.
Last edited by mikey on Sat May 14, 2011 7:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Gutted for you man , it sucks when you think you got something sussed and the price gets away on you. i was actually discussing LSD upgrades with a fellow Z owner last night. At least you have posted up useful info for S30 owners wanting an LSD.
74 260z 2+2
I see John Coffery of BetaMotorsport in the US (good guy to deal with I have purchased stuff from him in the past) has some 4340 custom axles for installing a Subie R180 LSD centre into the R180 of the S30's price is good too see
http://www.betamotorsports.com/products ... php?cat=11
http://www.betamotorsports.com/products ... php?cat=11
I figure I'll turn this thread into the build thread for my car so It's all in one place.
Look at the car-porn that turned up in the mail today!
I've spent ages researching what to get and decided on the Koni 8610-1437 shocks and Ground Control coil-overs and camber plates. They're not cheap, but I really don't want to do this twice.
I chose the Koni's over the Tokico's after realising that nobody who races Z's uses Tokico's and reading this excellent site Autocross to Win. The gist of it being that Koni's give sweet performance, are rebuildable, handle higher spring rates and affordable. Tokicos by comparison are only affordable. Other options were Bilstiens and Penske, but they super-expensive and not super-betterer than Koni's.
The Ground Control stuff looks great and it sounds as though it's one of the best designs, but I'm no suspension expert; far from it!
So the next two days are going to be spent cutting, welding, grinding and swearing. I'll keep you posted.
Look at the car-porn that turned up in the mail today!
I've spent ages researching what to get and decided on the Koni 8610-1437 shocks and Ground Control coil-overs and camber plates. They're not cheap, but I really don't want to do this twice.
I chose the Koni's over the Tokico's after realising that nobody who races Z's uses Tokico's and reading this excellent site Autocross to Win. The gist of it being that Koni's give sweet performance, are rebuildable, handle higher spring rates and affordable. Tokicos by comparison are only affordable. Other options were Bilstiens and Penske, but they super-expensive and not super-betterer than Koni's.
The Ground Control stuff looks great and it sounds as though it's one of the best designs, but I'm no suspension expert; far from it!
So the next two days are going to be spent cutting, welding, grinding and swearing. I'll keep you posted.
Last edited by mikey on Sat May 14, 2011 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is today's efforts:
I'd hoped to get the front completed today but alas that didn't happen. Sectioning was pretty straight forward; the Koni's easily fitted my struts, which makes me wonder if I have the larger 280 struts in my 240, hmmm.
The tricky thing will be getting the holes cut for the camber plates. The hole saw I have is not up to the task. I tried using a dremmel but the discs keep shattering. I think I'll have to use a jig saw. That'll impress the pants off the neighbours.
I also learnt lesson about cleaning your metal before welding. The first strut I used a flap disc to clean it up before welding the lower ring, the second I just sanded by hand before welding. The difference in the weld quality was night and day, I'll definitely be more careful in the future.
Something tells me I'm not gonna get this finished this weekend.....
I'd hoped to get the front completed today but alas that didn't happen. Sectioning was pretty straight forward; the Koni's easily fitted my struts, which makes me wonder if I have the larger 280 struts in my 240, hmmm.
The tricky thing will be getting the holes cut for the camber plates. The hole saw I have is not up to the task. I tried using a dremmel but the discs keep shattering. I think I'll have to use a jig saw. That'll impress the pants off the neighbours.
I also learnt lesson about cleaning your metal before welding. The first strut I used a flap disc to clean it up before welding the lower ring, the second I just sanded by hand before welding. The difference in the weld quality was night and day, I'll definitely be more careful in the future.
Something tells me I'm not gonna get this finished this weekend.....
General straight line cutting is best achieved with an angle grinder with 1mm thick cut off wheel or air powered die grinder with carbide bur rotary bits make mince meat out of sheet metal. Struts would only take about about 30mins each to cut out. By the way please plate the top and sides of tower before installing the flash new suspension !
Best idea of the day: Get 4 inch cutoff wheel and cut into junior cut off wheels for the Dremmel. I owe dave a new set of Dremmel bits BTW.
Cutting and filing the camber plate holes took around 2 hours per side and it wasn't much fun. I'm pretty sure the neighbours hated it even more than I did.
Connect the dots:
Grind, file, get really tired, make a racket:
Sweet:
Before:
After:
Clever readers will note that I've only managed to complete the front and haven't even started on the rear. No idea when I'll get another free weekend to do them, plus I think I'll take a break from the car for a while. I may even do it in stages; section the rears but do the camber plates some other time.
Cutting and filing the camber plate holes took around 2 hours per side and it wasn't much fun. I'm pretty sure the neighbours hated it even more than I did.
Connect the dots:
Grind, file, get really tired, make a racket:
Sweet:
Before:
After:
Clever readers will note that I've only managed to complete the front and haven't even started on the rear. No idea when I'll get another free weekend to do them, plus I think I'll take a break from the car for a while. I may even do it in stages; section the rears but do the camber plates some other time.
wow you dont have much meat left in there. When i have done this in the past ( a few times ) i have just used 3 slots. A large centre slot for the strut nut and a slot either side for the adjusters to slide in. The plating involved a complete cap over the top of the strut tower (C/W matching slots) with folded tags about 50mm wide down each vertical face of the strut towers. This cap was completely welded to the strut tower and was fabricated out of 2.5mm thick mild steel.
The reasons for this. Nice new suspension with harder springs and shocks no rubber in the top mounts and possibly lower profile tires transmit a lot of extra shock loadings into the upper strut tower area. This area in its self is just a cap spot welded onto the tower. The spot welds are not especially strong and have already been subjected to a reasonable life pounding. My driving may be a bit rougher than yours but i have seen the top of strut towers and the welds on the strut itself crack and start to come away. Try it and see but keep an eye on things. Also be prepared to change the spherical top bearing occaisonally !
Anyway shiny stuff always looks fast good luck.
The reasons for this. Nice new suspension with harder springs and shocks no rubber in the top mounts and possibly lower profile tires transmit a lot of extra shock loadings into the upper strut tower area. This area in its self is just a cap spot welded onto the tower. The spot welds are not especially strong and have already been subjected to a reasonable life pounding. My driving may be a bit rougher than yours but i have seen the top of strut towers and the welds on the strut itself crack and start to come away. Try it and see but keep an eye on things. Also be prepared to change the spherical top bearing occaisonally !
Anyway shiny stuff always looks fast good luck.
Yeah I took a lot out, but it's braced by the camber plates so I figure the lack of meat wont result in less strength.Baker93 wrote:wow you dont have much meat left in there.
The top plate of the Gound Control plates is probably a waste of space anyhow. It's designed with slotted mounting holes so you can adjust the castor but in all practicality there's nowhere near enough room in the towers to allow any movement. I hardly got them in there in the first place! So they're only really good for adjusting camber, it may be possible to ditch the top plate altogether and just slot the tower like you suggest. Too late for me thou.
If I did ditch the top plate and slot the towers I'd still get be able to use the fancy GC rose joint and bearing which ensures the top-hat is always perpendicular to the spring.
I was planning on stitch welding everything on the strut towers to try and add more rigidity when I have the engine out.Baker93 wrote:My driving may be a bit rougher than yours but i have seen the top of strut towers and the welds on the strut itself crack and start to come away.
Do you have any photos of the bracing you added?