Race car fuel

Grunzter · Post by **Grunzter** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:32 pm

Hi all,
Just to let you all know that ALL NZ Motorsport (MANZ) affiliated events will no longer allow the use of 'Av-Gas' or 'Race-Gas' as it is sometimes called from July 2010.
So if you are building an engine based on Avgas think again...

Out of interest my engine will be built based on 'Gull 98 Force 10' fuel, this aparently gives more power than Av-Gas but requires lower compression.

If anyone has more on this subject I would be interested to here.
Cheers all...

nzdatman · Post by **nzdatman** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:03 pm

more power from Gull 98? is that the ethanol blend? how does that work? most alcohol engines use really high CR so is surprising to use a lower CR?
fill us in on the details!

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:05 am

My understanding (not always reliable mind you) is it was only for championship events? I think maybe octane boosters will be a work around if it applies to all events?

Grunzter · Post by **Grunzter** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:59 pm

Hi all,
Still digging for info, but yes CMR said normal pump gas from selected stations only.
Avgas is out because it contains lead.

Will ask MANZ how far this will reach, as I assume the Z club is MANZ affiliated and hence any 'Motorsport' event we hold such as Taupo will be included in the Avgas ban...
...or does it mean when they are directly invloved as you say, such as a proper MANZ sanctioned series like GT3 Porsches, NZGT/GT1, V8's etc?

nzeder · Post by **nzeder** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:28 pm

Grunzter wrote:Hi all,
Still digging for info, but yes CMR said normal pump gas from selected stations only.
Avgas is out because it contains lead.

Will ask MANZ how far this will reach, as I assume the Z club is MANZ affiliated and hence any 'Motorsport' event we hold such as Taupo will be included in the Avgas ban...
...or does it mean when they are directly invloved as you say, such as a proper MANZ sanctioned series like GT3 Porsches, NZGT/GT1, V8's etc?

I believe this is due to a deal Labour did with the Greens to remove all forms of lead fuel from our country including race gas (ie expired AVGAS) and Aunty Helen might have had something to do with it also ie suckup point to the UN when gunning for that top job. However it came about we are stuck with it apparently and we have to live without AVGAS/Racegas - however I heard a rumour that an alternative high octane unleaded fuel might be around in the not to distance future. However this is all besides the point if MANZ want people to race more period correct cars for classic racing then that means heads that have not been too modified ie old seats etc = Lead or some form of lub is required for the valve train.....who knows what deal are done behind closed doors that effects us all

things like taxing the air we breath via the ETS scam.

Volodkovich · Post by **Volodkovich** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:35 am

Its a bit crazy really. Seeming planes are flying all over the country pumping out the stuff. I cant see how the small amount of pollution caused by leaded fuels in race cars can be that big of a deal. How often do you take your race car out? 10 times a year max?

Grunzter · Post by **Grunzter** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:15 pm

What Reg said he found with his Rally car is he is making more powder on the Dyno with the 'Gull 98...' than with Avgas, but yes the CR needs to be lower, which yes does reduce HP.
He said they pump in more fuel than he would with Avgas, but with the lower CR & more fuel the net result was very good!
He is converting many engines over to 'Gull 98...' as the rally boys are facing the same situation, no Avgas soon...

Ref: Gull 98 Force 10 is 90% 98 Octane gasoline and 10% bioethanol.

Extract from Wikipedia:
"Ethanol can be used in petrol engines as a replacement for gasoline; it can be mixed with gasoline to any percentage. Most existing automobile petrol engines can run on blends of up to 15% bioethanol with petroleum/gasoline. Ethanol has a smaller energy density than gasoline, which means it takes more fuel (volume and mass) to produce the same amount of work. An advantage of ethanol is that is has a higher octane rating than ethanol-free gasoline available at roadside gas stations which allows an increase of an engine's compression ratio for increased thermal efficiency."

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:14 pm

Sounds like you're onto it. I was at an event last year where the MSNZ President said it was a forgone conclusion. There will be a workaround for those of us stretching the last few miles out of high compression engines.

kiwi303 · Post by **kiwi303** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:57 pm

Volodkovich wrote:Its a bit crazy really. Seeming planes are flying all over the country pumping out the stuff. I cant see how the small amount of pollution caused by leaded fuels in race cars can be that big of a deal. How often do you take your race car out? 10 times a year max?

I think the reasoning behind letting planes use it is that they fly high enough (jets anyway) that the fumes drift off on the air currents and it's all SEP. (Someone Elses Problem)

Pilot.P · Post by **Pilot.P** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:39 am

I think the reasoning behind letting planes use it is that they fly high enough (jets anyway) that the fumes drift off on the air currents and it's all SEP. (Someone Elses Problem)

Thing is jets don't use AVGAS. GA (General Aviation) aircraft use AVGAS, and we dont fly that high

kiwi303 · Post by **kiwi303** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:01 am

Pilot.P wrote:
I think the reasoning behind letting planes use it is that they fly high enough (jets anyway) that the fumes drift off on the air currents and it's all SEP. (Someone Elses Problem)
Thing is jets don't use AVGAS. GA (General Aviation) aircraft use AVGAS, and we dont fly that high

Do the politicions, especialy the Green Party, know that JP1 et al isn't AVGAS?

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:09 am

Environmental pollutants etc are probably the only things that the Green Party has any substantial knowledge of, oh of course they know alot about telling other folk what to do, and sitting on committees .........

andy120 · Post by **andy120** » Wed May 25, 2011 10:14 pm

When I worked for S...L we mixed a race brew for Pukekohe of avgas + 5% Acetone. My 28 oz went beautyful for weeks after

Andy

Ricky · Post by **Ricky** » Thu May 26, 2011 10:36 am

Hi there,
Race cars pre 1986 with log books and a COD can use race gas until another suitable fuel is found, this was confirmed at the Manz conference a few weeks ago.
There is no suitable fuel on the horizon so we are fine for the next few years.

The killer is the cost with AvGas costing over $3 a litre, I think most of us will switch to another fuel for cost savings, possibly more power and convenience.

Cheers
Ricky

Grunzter · Post by **Grunzter** » Sun May 29, 2011 8:44 pm

whats a COD?