Hi all
I'm new this site and looking for advice. I have a 1974 Datsun 260Z 2+2 which has been off the road for ~15 years and I've finally got around to starting a restoration. I have sent the body out for rust repairs and some new paint, but I’m not sure what to do about the engine. The original engine needs a rebuild anyway so I’m trying to decide whether to go there or look for an upgrade. From what I read on the internet an L28 (Turbo?) looks to the easiest conversion, but a newer Nissan engine may be the way to go. Does anyone out there have any experience with an engine swap into an old Z? Are there any certification issues I need to think about?
Cheers
Rich
260Z engine swap?
You have just opened Pandora's box. Welcome and 10 bonus points for you!
There are a heap of alternative engines you can fit in that huge engine bay. Stick to a L series to minimise cutting and prodding. L28 turbo would be the the easiest thing to do, unless you have a carbed L26 then I'd just put in a L28 and run it on a set of 240z SU's as the flat top carbs on 260's are rubbish. 240z carbs come up on TradeMe now and again.
You could put in a Nissan RB series engine, from a RB20 to a RB30. This is a common mod these days and there are plenty of websites awaiting your time to investigate. Of course you can also put in a SBC in there without any problems.
My guess is that if you keep a L series engine in there on the same intake as what you already have, then I doubt that many WOF mechanics would know where to look on the block to view the block descriptor. This will give the size away. They can off course check the serial numbers but you could explain that away. So you may not need compliance. I'm no expert though so have a dig about, I'm sure someone will correct me here....please! If you shove a L28 turbo in there then it will look obvious won't it.
For the money spent converting it to turbo over just a L28 upgrade on carbs......to me....not worth it.
Good luck and keep us informed.
There are a heap of alternative engines you can fit in that huge engine bay. Stick to a L series to minimise cutting and prodding. L28 turbo would be the the easiest thing to do, unless you have a carbed L26 then I'd just put in a L28 and run it on a set of 240z SU's as the flat top carbs on 260's are rubbish. 240z carbs come up on TradeMe now and again.
You could put in a Nissan RB series engine, from a RB20 to a RB30. This is a common mod these days and there are plenty of websites awaiting your time to investigate. Of course you can also put in a SBC in there without any problems.
My guess is that if you keep a L series engine in there on the same intake as what you already have, then I doubt that many WOF mechanics would know where to look on the block to view the block descriptor. This will give the size away. They can off course check the serial numbers but you could explain that away. So you may not need compliance. I'm no expert though so have a dig about, I'm sure someone will correct me here....please! If you shove a L28 turbo in there then it will look obvious won't it.
For the money spent converting it to turbo over just a L28 upgrade on carbs......to me....not worth it.
Good luck and keep us informed.
Last edited by 240znz on Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zed NOT Zee
12/70 HS30-00352
1973 240Z rust car
12/70 HS30-00352
1973 240Z rust car
Welcome - and what a first post as 240znz has stated Pandora's box.
There are number of sites that have lots of info on the different engine conversions into the S30 body style. Have a look at forums on www.hybridz.org there are section for the L6 including turbo and another on RB conversions. I too have been down the same road a while back. I have chosen the L28 N/A path myself = simple upgrade (however in my case I have decided to go to EFI in the process = could have done the turbo thing...but a personal thing I love the sound of a N/A L6 + I have never owned a turbo and I am sure the L28 will be fast enough for me.)
As stated doing the L26 --> L28 is easy purchase a good running L28 (from $100-600...the $600 is from an engine importer) take out the L26, put in the L28 stick on some 240z SU's or triple carbs, tune and away you go - however reading the LTA regs state that as you are increasing your engine size it must require a cert. However I don't believe this should be necessary in the 260z case as the same parts were used ie body, suspension and brakes for the US spec'd 280z = designed to handle it from the factory and most WOF or testing stations would not know the difference between a L20a, L24. L26 and L28. Going from SU's to triples does not require a cert unless the power output is increase by more than 20% as system is not changed ie Carbs to Carbs. Again these figures are straight from the http://www.lvvta.org.nz/ cert regs.
Now given your car has been of the road for sometime unless you have the rego on hold and you are not making any changes to the car ie brake/suspension/structural rust etc then it will be a simple check, some $$ a WOF and back on the road. Now you could say the L28 was in there when the car came of the road 15 years ago = no cert required and that the rego was never updated to show the new engine number (this happens I have a motorbike that has been on NZ road for 12 years and it has never had it engine number recorded against it = repower anyone
) or if you are unlucky like I was when they went from the old system to the new computer based system my 260z with the factory L26 when from being listed as a 2600cc to 2000cc (someone could not read the hand written 6 correctly) so a phone call fixed that up 10 years ago (I should have said it was a 8 to make it 2800cc back then)
Anyway the RB engines are a bit heavier than the L26/L28's and you will need the now harder to get Z31R RB20DET sump and oil pickup - these can be purchase still from Nissan but expect to pay around $700 or more NZD. You will then need new engine mounts (there is a guy in Oz that sells a kit that put the engine in the right spot). You will also need to purchase the RB engine and gearbox. From the research I have done best box to get is the RB25DET 5 spd but that are now hard to find and will go for around $2000 upwards. If you are going to the trouble of installing a RB don't do a RB20 or RB20DET I believe the head has very small ports and valves = not much more HP to be gained (again this is just what I have read on the internet and you can't always believe everything you read). So you will want a RB25DE, RB30E, RB25DET, RB26DETT or hybrid RB30DE or RB30DET so you are talking about $10K for the conversion if done right, legal and tidy (and that is without a rebuild of the RB engine). I am sure it can be done cheaper but this is if you don't do any work your self, here is how I get to $10K, $1000 for the sump and engine/gearbox mounts, $2500 for the box, $2000 for a RB25DET in good nic and front facing plenium, $2000 for good after market ECU, $1000 for back end upgrade, $1500 for bigger brakes so that is all the parts you need and look no labour to do the conversion....opps might cost more then and I forgot the $750ish for cert.
So this is why I when the L28 path....however I will be going EFI = triple throttle bodies = too much, ECU and bits, rewire of the car (because I want a tidy install with a clean engine bay) the list goes on so I might as well build a nice L28 to match = balanced crank, rebuild engine.....so again close to the $10K or more when finished
So there you go your car and $$ your call
There are number of sites that have lots of info on the different engine conversions into the S30 body style. Have a look at forums on www.hybridz.org there are section for the L6 including turbo and another on RB conversions. I too have been down the same road a while back. I have chosen the L28 N/A path myself = simple upgrade (however in my case I have decided to go to EFI in the process = could have done the turbo thing...but a personal thing I love the sound of a N/A L6 + I have never owned a turbo and I am sure the L28 will be fast enough for me.)
As stated doing the L26 --> L28 is easy purchase a good running L28 (from $100-600...the $600 is from an engine importer) take out the L26, put in the L28 stick on some 240z SU's or triple carbs, tune and away you go - however reading the LTA regs state that as you are increasing your engine size it must require a cert. However I don't believe this should be necessary in the 260z case as the same parts were used ie body, suspension and brakes for the US spec'd 280z = designed to handle it from the factory and most WOF or testing stations would not know the difference between a L20a, L24. L26 and L28. Going from SU's to triples does not require a cert unless the power output is increase by more than 20% as system is not changed ie Carbs to Carbs. Again these figures are straight from the http://www.lvvta.org.nz/ cert regs.
Now given your car has been of the road for sometime unless you have the rego on hold and you are not making any changes to the car ie brake/suspension/structural rust etc then it will be a simple check, some $$ a WOF and back on the road. Now you could say the L28 was in there when the car came of the road 15 years ago = no cert required and that the rego was never updated to show the new engine number (this happens I have a motorbike that has been on NZ road for 12 years and it has never had it engine number recorded against it = repower anyone
) or if you are unlucky like I was when they went from the old system to the new computer based system my 260z with the factory L26 when from being listed as a 2600cc to 2000cc (someone could not read the hand written 6 correctly) so a phone call fixed that up 10 years ago (I should have said it was a 8 to make it 2800cc back then)Anyway the RB engines are a bit heavier than the L26/L28's and you will need the now harder to get Z31R RB20DET sump and oil pickup - these can be purchase still from Nissan but expect to pay around $700 or more NZD. You will then need new engine mounts (there is a guy in Oz that sells a kit that put the engine in the right spot). You will also need to purchase the RB engine and gearbox. From the research I have done best box to get is the RB25DET 5 spd but that are now hard to find and will go for around $2000 upwards. If you are going to the trouble of installing a RB don't do a RB20 or RB20DET I believe the head has very small ports and valves = not much more HP to be gained (again this is just what I have read on the internet and you can't always believe everything you read). So you will want a RB25DE, RB30E, RB25DET, RB26DETT or hybrid RB30DE or RB30DET so you are talking about $10K for the conversion if done right, legal and tidy (and that is without a rebuild of the RB engine). I am sure it can be done cheaper but this is if you don't do any work your self, here is how I get to $10K, $1000 for the sump and engine/gearbox mounts, $2500 for the box, $2000 for a RB25DET in good nic and front facing plenium, $2000 for good after market ECU, $1000 for back end upgrade, $1500 for bigger brakes so that is all the parts you need and look no labour to do the conversion....opps might cost more then and I forgot the $750ish for cert.
So this is why I when the L28 path....however I will be going EFI = triple throttle bodies = too much, ECU and bits, rewire of the car (because I want a tidy install with a clean engine bay) the list goes on so I might as well build a nice L28 to match = balanced crank, rebuild engine.....so again close to the $10K or more when finished
So there you go your car and $$ your call
76 RS30 260z
70 Mini Cooper S (replica)
Previous
73 RS30 260z track
70 HS30-00016 240z
72 HS30 240z 2.8 track
71 HS30 240z 3.2 road/track
79 HS130 280zx
82 HS130 280zx T top
2x 73 KP710 160JSSS
74 KB210 120Y Coupe
71 510 1600 Deluxe
70 Mini Cooper S (replica)
Previous
73 RS30 260z track
70 HS30-00016 240z
72 HS30 240z 2.8 track
71 HS30 240z 3.2 road/track
79 HS130 280zx
82 HS130 280zx T top
2x 73 KP710 160JSSS
74 KB210 120Y Coupe
71 510 1600 Deluxe
Ha dude your in the same boat as me, I too have a 74 260z, however it has the Carbs off my 240z already and well all it needs is the body to be rebuild...
I am all for the L28 block with triple carbs nothing comes close to the sound of induction and exhaust of this setup, well maybe when I got the 240z running back 91'....
I am all for the L28 block with triple carbs nothing comes close to the sound of induction and exhaust of this setup, well maybe when I got the 240z running back 91'....
A few projects on the go....
If you want to go EFI you will need ECU, EFI fuel pump, surge tank, yada yada also you should get the injectors cleaned flow tested etc.
So if want the car running quickly stick with carbs.
So if want the car running quickly stick with carbs.
-
geordieggg
- Posts: 91
- Location: Watching the polar bears walk past.............
I'd be more than happy to trade you a complete EFI setup, ECU, loom, pump etc for a complete carb setup...............
hahaha You'd say no if you knew the troubles I've been having, isn't that right Nzeder??
hahaha You'd say no if you knew the troubles I've been having, isn't that right Nzeder??
Yea but I would tell him to take the setup and bin the ECU and get an aftermarket one ahgeordieggg wrote:I'd be more than happy to trade you a complete EFI setup, ECU, loom, pump etc for a complete carb setup...............
hahaha You'd say no if you knew the troubles I've been having, isn't that right Nzeder??
- I could build my megasquirt get it running on Dad's EFI Fairlday and then sell a working solution then the $$ could help me purchase part of a megasquirt V3 (I currently have a V2.2 that I am yet to assemble)For those that don't know what a Megasquirt is - it is a EFI ECU that you buy as a kit set and make up yourself (or you can purchase complete units from number of places in the USA) all is open source = if you are so inclined you could write your own code. See http://www.megasquirt.info/
Thanks for all the previous information. I spoke to a LVVTA certifier the other day and in his opinion, if I throw in an L28 engine then there's nothing to worry about. The car came out with this engine in the US anyway. So I splashed out and bought a complete L28, ECU, fuel pump etc.... and it's all sitting on a pallet in my garage waiting for me to have some time to look at it.
I have another unrelated Z question. The guy doing the panel and paint work has dropped the suspension out of the car and I thought I'd do the bushings and shocks while it's all apart, rather than pulling it all apart again when I get the car back. I spoke to my mechanic about getting the parts and he checked around but his suppliers have told him not all are available off the shelf. Anyone been down this path lately? I'm in Auckland so someone local who can supply these would be preferable, but any suggestions would be great. There's a few places in the US advertising a bushing kit for Z's for around $170US, but the shipping to NZ for these alone would be an extra $200us, then there's the shocks....
cheers
Rich
I have another unrelated Z question. The guy doing the panel and paint work has dropped the suspension out of the car and I thought I'd do the bushings and shocks while it's all apart, rather than pulling it all apart again when I get the car back. I spoke to my mechanic about getting the parts and he checked around but his suppliers have told him not all are available off the shelf. Anyone been down this path lately? I'm in Auckland so someone local who can supply these would be preferable, but any suggestions would be great. There's a few places in the US advertising a bushing kit for Z's for around $170US, but the shipping to NZ for these alone would be an extra $200us, then there's the shocks....
cheers
Rich
Someone is taking the piss if they want to rip you US$200 for shipping. I'd think no more than US$50. You could try aussie. Send me a PM with your email and I'll send you my aussie zed suppliers spreadsheet. It maybe of some use. A full urethane set should cost about US$170.
Get your shocks locally. KYB are not bad I've been told.
Get your shocks locally. KYB are not bad I've been told.
Zed NOT Zee
12/70 HS30-00352
1973 240Z rust car
12/70 HS30-00352
1973 240Z rust car
240znz is right $200 USD is a rip for shipping - you can still get all the suspension bushing you need in Urethane - Lovells in Australia still have them listed in their parts catalog. Visit there website http://www.lovells.com.au
$200 USD is a rip for shipping - you can still get all the suspension bushing you need in Urethane - Lovells in Australia still have them listed in their parts catalog. Visit there website http://www.lovells.com.au-
old_datto_fan
- Z Club Member
- Posts: 951
- Location: Kapiti
$200 is definitely a rip-off. I have just bought some shocks in the States and shipping was US$36.00 for Economy 4-6 Weeks or Airmail at US$75.50 for 7-10 days. I expect the box for the shocks to be bigger than the one my suspension bushes came in so they should be less.
Good luck with the rebuild.
Good luck with the rebuild.
It's been a while since I last posted here. The body restoration is almost complete and the suspension is all back under the car so I am turning my attention to the 2.8 lump in my garage. I have pulled the head off to check the pistons and they are the standard dished type. Has anyone here bought any flat top pistons for a Nissan L28 lately? Any suggestion of where to go and how much it's likely to cost would be gratefully received. I'm not looking to turbo the engine.