Just a quick question but is there any dissatvantage to running a 2way LSD on a street setup car?
Looking at my options for an LSD for the 240. Keeping the r180 since I want to stay with the L24 for now.
2 way LSD
Is your diff still the stock 240z diff? Do you know if it is the early or late type of r180 aka 110mm crown wheel or the later 115mm crown? Expect to pay some good $$ on a r180 LSD. If you have the early 110mm, which is most likely if the stock you will be looking for a long time for a secondhand unit. New will cost some....ie $1500
Clutch 2 Way LSD's are not as bad as people make them out to be on the street.
But i can say they take a little getting used to . If you don't have excessive pre load and the car is a well balanced car already it will make the driving experience fantastic and give it a lot more grip.
I have my R200 2 way CLSD set at about 55 ft lbs breakaway torque, and for street tires it slips just the right amount. I get a bit of scuff on full lock car park maneuvers and just dont drive on muddy grass.
In my Z31 with an open diff 250 whp and heaps of torque was pretty dangerous on a open diff, the 2 way CLSD stopped the tank slappers and unpredictable cornering and has really brought some control to the back end of the car. When it step out its very predictable and comes back in smoothly.
I don't get any clunks bangs and shudders, the one bit that took some getting used to was the lockup on deceleration, Just go carefully for the first couple of weeks and its no trouble at all.
However if you buy a 2 way from track car running very sticky tires with a high preload setting, its really going to behave like a locker and be terrible to drive.
Hope this helps.
But i can say they take a little getting used to . If you don't have excessive pre load and the car is a well balanced car already it will make the driving experience fantastic and give it a lot more grip.
I have my R200 2 way CLSD set at about 55 ft lbs breakaway torque, and for street tires it slips just the right amount. I get a bit of scuff on full lock car park maneuvers and just dont drive on muddy grass.
In my Z31 with an open diff 250 whp and heaps of torque was pretty dangerous on a open diff, the 2 way CLSD stopped the tank slappers and unpredictable cornering and has really brought some control to the back end of the car. When it step out its very predictable and comes back in smoothly.
I don't get any clunks bangs and shudders, the one bit that took some getting used to was the lockup on deceleration, Just go carefully for the first couple of weeks and its no trouble at all.
However if you buy a 2 way from track car running very sticky tires with a high preload setting, its really going to behave like a locker and be terrible to drive.
Hope this helps.
1985 Z31 Slicktop Turbo
I'm sure it's the earlier R180 with the 110mm crown wheel. Have spoken to the guy and he has confirmed that the 2way CLSD is for the earlier R180. Said its going to cost about $1300 if I take the diff out and take it to him to install it. As far as I understand the 2way affects the deceleration alot more compared to 1 and 1.5 way?? Do these LSD's make alot of noise??nzeder wrote:Is your diff still the stock 240z diff? Do you know if it is the early or late type of r180 aka 110mm crown wheel or the later 115mm crown? Expect to pay some good $$ on a r180 LSD. If you have the early 110mm, which is most likely if the stock you will be looking for a long time for a secondhand unit. New will cost some....ie $1500
Just what I wanted to hear. Thanking you sir.85_z31 wrote:Properly setup for a street car and in good condition with the correct fluid no they wont.B101 wrote:o these LSD's make alot of noise??
Will ring the guy back up tomorrow and ask a few more questions. Should be a nice setup with the new Ground Control adjustable a and race konis I just got in the mail.
so after inspecting the R180 LSD and talking with the guys down at The Diff Shop in chch i decided i would get it along with another 4.3 R180 diff.
They had a closer look at the crown wheel that i was going to machine to 115mm to fit the LSD since they gave me thr wrong measurments in the first place and looking at the teeth on the crown it had very light skuff marks and said that it could very well lead to a noisy diff and will overheat the oil, luckly for me they had just taken one out of a 4wd and uppon inspection it turned out to be a 4.3 gear ratio with a 115mm crown wheel and the diff had the K on top of it.Crown and pinion gear looked like new, so i asked how much for the whole Lot. I coudldnt say know to the offer.
Always wanted to know what it would feel like with a 4.3 ratio diff in the back plus i did some number crunching and with the set up i have it would only move up my rpm by about 600, so i thought it was worth a go to get a little bit more performance out of the engine and over all setup
Formula =
speed (65mph)xdiff ratio (4.3)x gear ratio 3rd(1.311)x336
Tyre size(23.5") =RPM
65x4.3x1.311x336 Devided by 23.5 = 5,239 rpm compaired to
65x3.9x1.311x336 devided by 23.5 = 4,751 rpm
They had a closer look at the crown wheel that i was going to machine to 115mm to fit the LSD since they gave me thr wrong measurments in the first place and looking at the teeth on the crown it had very light skuff marks and said that it could very well lead to a noisy diff and will overheat the oil, luckly for me they had just taken one out of a 4wd and uppon inspection it turned out to be a 4.3 gear ratio with a 115mm crown wheel and the diff had the K on top of it.Crown and pinion gear looked like new, so i asked how much for the whole Lot. I coudldnt say know to the offer.
Always wanted to know what it would feel like with a 4.3 ratio diff in the back plus i did some number crunching and with the set up i have it would only move up my rpm by about 600, so i thought it was worth a go to get a little bit more performance out of the engine and over all setup
Formula =
speed (65mph)xdiff ratio (4.3)x gear ratio 3rd(1.311)x336
Tyre size(23.5") =RPM
65x4.3x1.311x336 Devided by 23.5 = 5,239 rpm compaired to
65x3.9x1.311x336 devided by 23.5 = 4,751 rpm
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excellent the K on the top = later long nose. Q for you. Do you know what the R180 4.3 came from? A later model Subaru? If yes then the input shaft splice count will be different to your 240z stuff so you now have to sort out how to make axles work (might be best to go to CV's these days anyway) so that is more $$$
Anyway good luck.
Anyway good luck.
cant remember what 4wd it was out of. Know it wasnt out of a subaru though. What ever it was it doesnt look like it was on the road for long, judging by how good the teeth looked on the crown, pinion and spider gears. Didnt need new bearings or anything.nzeder wrote:excellent the K on the top = later long nose. Q for you. Do you know what the R180 4.3 came from? A later model Subaru? If yes then the input shaft splice count will be different to your 240z stuff so you now have to sort out how to make axles work (might be best to go to CV's these days anyway) so that is more $$$
Anyway good luck.
I believe the Datsun R180s had the 25 spline shaft and the subaru had 27?? I checked the spline and it fits straight into the LSD. Should be a new straight bolt in upgrade. just have to make sure i use the right amount of spacers for the preload once its in there.
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Very happy with the guys down at The Diff Shop here in CHCH, they were more than happy to explain and answer all of my questions, plus they gave me a few tips with doing the work myself to save on coin.
All in all I think I was really lucky and to finaly sort out an LSD and a 4.3 diff for the datto!
Fairly easy on the wallet for around $1000 all up.
BONUS!!
All in all I think I was really lucky and to finaly sort out an LSD and a 4.3 diff for the datto!
Fairly easy on the wallet for around $1000 all up.
BONUS!!
B101, below is a copy of some of my posts from NZDatsun.com It relates to R200 IRS diffs but the theory is basically identical.
A couple things I have discovered as part of building my R200 Recently
*Tools you will need
Datsun/Nissan Factory Service manual - haynes Manual probally won't tell you anything.
Dial Gauge & Mag Base
Tidy Area To work
1/4 dr Inch Pound Dial Torque Wrench ( for preload measuring )
Gear Marking Paste
*When Working on your IRS Diff it is really usefull to have it "G" clamped onto a metal bench or surface
*When you measure backlash it is usefull to clamp the input flange onto something so you get a totally accurate reading every time.
*It is Very Important to get your Backlash exactly back to where it was so it wont make horrible noises. Getting it right can be tricky and will probally take you ages. it also helps to burgle a variety of diffierent size Datsun/Nissan shims from some broken or parts diffs before you Start
*Wilson Brother Sell Handy Packet of Universal shim stock that includes a whole bunch of diffierent thicknesses which one can cut out with scizors for various preload adjstments ( mainly side bearings and backlash )
*Check your Diff's total preload with an inch pound dial torque wrench BEFORE you pull it to its, i have discovered this to be an excellent indication of the condition of a Diffs Bearings. If you have close to Zero preload all your bearings are shagged or the diff is poorly setup.
*If you do need to remove your Pinon Shaft ( on an IRS OR R200 DIFF ) you can actually use a large 2 jaw gear puller instead of using a hydrualic press.
DO NOT BASH ON THE NUT WITH A HAMMER, you will ruin the nut or the thread and it will make you Rage 10 / 10 . ( no i didn't actually do this )
Hopefully this saves somebody some time. I learned a lot and I can totally strip and assemble an R200 like a pro in no time at all now if anybody needs help
some of you guys might find this a good read principles are the same for most Nissan IRS Diffs
http://xenonz31.com/files/Z31%20R200%20 ... lip%29.pdf
And another post of mine from nzdatsun.com
I have a small addition to this diff tech thread.
Please do not ever remove the pinion shaft unless you are doing the following.
*Fitting new bearings
*Going to do a very through clean and inspection and re assemble with new seals following the service manual exactly and taking all the measurements and making up where each part goes.
on a Nissan diff you don't have a lot of reasons to remove the pinion shaft unless he bearings are totally rooted, that being the case the bearings are very difficult to source - you can read more about the availability problem on hybrid Z.
So if anybody is thinking about taking their diff somewhere to get worked on, please don't attempt to strip it down, Many measurements need to be taken from the diff BEFORE it gets worked on.
My recommendation is that you clean and degrease the diff internally and externally to make it as friendly to work on as possible, this makes more of a difference than sending your diff man a half stripped down diff.
There are not many long nose parts left so we need to keep as many of these old buggers alive and skidding for as long as possible.
Another handy tip is to crack loose the fill up and drain plugs while the vehicle is still in he car, last one i undone was seized up so me, Dan & another dude were all cracking on it to get it lose along with a half can on CRC Penetrate.
That's my main experience after swapping a few LSD's into non LSD housings.
I'm sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs. I don't mean to, that's just my own experience and handy notes.
A couple things I have discovered as part of building my R200 Recently
*Tools you will need
Datsun/Nissan Factory Service manual - haynes Manual probally won't tell you anything.
Dial Gauge & Mag Base
Tidy Area To work
1/4 dr Inch Pound Dial Torque Wrench ( for preload measuring )
Gear Marking Paste
*When Working on your IRS Diff it is really usefull to have it "G" clamped onto a metal bench or surface
*When you measure backlash it is usefull to clamp the input flange onto something so you get a totally accurate reading every time.
*It is Very Important to get your Backlash exactly back to where it was so it wont make horrible noises. Getting it right can be tricky and will probally take you ages. it also helps to burgle a variety of diffierent size Datsun/Nissan shims from some broken or parts diffs before you Start
*Wilson Brother Sell Handy Packet of Universal shim stock that includes a whole bunch of diffierent thicknesses which one can cut out with scizors for various preload adjstments ( mainly side bearings and backlash )
*Check your Diff's total preload with an inch pound dial torque wrench BEFORE you pull it to its, i have discovered this to be an excellent indication of the condition of a Diffs Bearings. If you have close to Zero preload all your bearings are shagged or the diff is poorly setup.
*If you do need to remove your Pinon Shaft ( on an IRS OR R200 DIFF ) you can actually use a large 2 jaw gear puller instead of using a hydrualic press.
DO NOT BASH ON THE NUT WITH A HAMMER, you will ruin the nut or the thread and it will make you Rage 10 / 10 . ( no i didn't actually do this )
Hopefully this saves somebody some time. I learned a lot and I can totally strip and assemble an R200 like a pro in no time at all now if anybody needs help
some of you guys might find this a good read principles are the same for most Nissan IRS Diffs
http://xenonz31.com/files/Z31%20R200%20 ... lip%29.pdf
And another post of mine from nzdatsun.com
I have a small addition to this diff tech thread.
Please do not ever remove the pinion shaft unless you are doing the following.
*Fitting new bearings
*Going to do a very through clean and inspection and re assemble with new seals following the service manual exactly and taking all the measurements and making up where each part goes.
on a Nissan diff you don't have a lot of reasons to remove the pinion shaft unless he bearings are totally rooted, that being the case the bearings are very difficult to source - you can read more about the availability problem on hybrid Z.
So if anybody is thinking about taking their diff somewhere to get worked on, please don't attempt to strip it down, Many measurements need to be taken from the diff BEFORE it gets worked on.
My recommendation is that you clean and degrease the diff internally and externally to make it as friendly to work on as possible, this makes more of a difference than sending your diff man a half stripped down diff.
There are not many long nose parts left so we need to keep as many of these old buggers alive and skidding for as long as possible.
Another handy tip is to crack loose the fill up and drain plugs while the vehicle is still in he car, last one i undone was seized up so me, Dan & another dude were all cracking on it to get it lose along with a half can on CRC Penetrate.
That's my main experience after swapping a few LSD's into non LSD housings.
I'm sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs. I don't mean to, that's just my own experience and handy notes.
1985 Z31 Slicktop Turbo
That's some very helpfull information. The bearing are in good condition according to the guys at the diff shop when they took some load tests. All I really need to do is set the preload correctly once I put the LSD in. If I am not confident enough I said I would get the guys at The Diff Shop to do it properly. I also have a few shims from my other R180 diffs. Have not done all the research I need to try and do it myself yet.